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1974 12 232150 CITY COUNCIL MEETING -SPECIAL MEETING December 23,1974 Council Room -City Hall 8:00 P.M. Members Present:Councilman Bob Hill,Bill Moe,Mike Boyle,Gordon Ebbert and Otto Skaug. Councilman Norm Johnson and Don Swanson were not present. PUBLIC HEARING -Continued Hearing regarding the 1975 Budget.«., The meeting was called to order by Mayor Gordon Ebbert.Mayor Ebbert stated the meeting is held to determine some additions,corrections and changes to the Budget for 1975 which has been proposed at this time.In order to start the procedure a letter was read from Rick Gagnier,Finance Director,regarding pro posed changes to the 1975 Preliminary Budget,attaching a complete listing of proposed changes by fund and department.The major changes involve the Water/Sewer Fund.These changes are necessary due to: 1.Receipt of a grant approval for Well #31. 2.The State Auditor recommended that our construction and bond funds be listed separately from the W/S Operating Fund. The Salary Resolution which normally accompanies the Budget has been delayed this year.We are still in the process of Labor Negotiations with the Teamsters Union (police)and hope to have a settlement before year end.At the conclusion of these negotiations a Resolution will be prepared for your approval. The proposed changes to the Preliminary Budget have been incorporated into the attached 1975 Budget Ordinance. Mayor Ebbert stated that any questions or comments from the audience would be welcome providina they pertain to the proposed changes in the Budget because the rest of the budget has been reviewed at a public hearing.The entire budget must be approved by the first of the year.Except for the salaries,due to labor negotiations not being completed,will have to be carried over into next year. Moe -Mr.Mayor,the Budget hasn't been approved by anybody as yet? Mayor Ebbert -No,but we have had public hearings up to this point.If there are any questions that go back into the Budget itself,yes,we would have to entertain them at this time. Waggener -For a point of clarification though,in terms of formal acceptance,no motion or action has been taken to accept any portion of the budget.There is an ordinance adopting the budget also presented for your consideration tonight,and if you concur with the budget as proposed and as proposed to be amend ed,,then you would need to pass the ordinance for adoption. Moe -We can adopt the budget tonight If as presented is O.K'd by the Council,is that correct? Mayor -Yes we can unless there are some major questions that we can't settle tonight. t Mayor Ebbert asked Rick Gagnier what procedure he had in mind,to go through It step by step regarding the changes?Rick Gagnier concurred. General Fund: Rick stated that basically the documents presented list •the major changes from the preliminary budget presented the first part of November.He started out with the General Fund,in the Finance Department with the addition of the verbatim minutes.It takes about one-half time of one;'of our secretaries to type them up and to coordinate them.We propose the addition of one-half time person then to take care of the minutes. In the Fire Department,the Preliminary Budget did not include $5300 holiday/premium pay,or $2,000 education incentive pay.Also with the passing of the new Weed Control Ordinance additional monies are needed there to clean up various lots that might need it during the summer months. Hill -That Is for clean up,not enforcement?Gagnier - I think that is a combination of both. Waggener - As I understand your question Bob, we are not talking about additional personnel to administer it,but there would be $3,000 in event we had to engage a contractor to clean up any lots,and this would be for paying him,hopefully we would be reimbursed for It. Under the Miscellaneous section we have added an additional $30,000.The Preliminary Budget anticipated that the labor settlement would approximate a given figure and it does not look at this point we will be close to that figure so we have put in a little bit extra with the anticipation that we might not need it all, but if it is there at least we won't hare to come back for a special budget ordinance to allocate salaries. We propose that the-entire funding for the General Fund additions come out of Revenue Sharing.That would necessitate a transfer from the Revenue Sharing Fund to the General Fund. Ebbert -This Fire Department Preliminary Budget thing,was that overlooked? Gagnier - This last year we changed the budget format and in the process of combining and charging some numbers around,we overlooked those particular Items.In the transition they inadvertently were dropped. Arterial Street Fund:- With the addition of the Valley Road Street Design project;preliminary engineering of $1500 is expected for 1975.This would come out of our rather large contingency item in the Arterial Street Fund and would not require an additional appropriation.We have approximately $130,000 contingency in that Arterial Street Fund. 2151 . City Council -Special Meeting (Budget Public Hearing cont'd.):2 December 23,1974 WATER/SEWER FUND: In our 1973 Audit just completed by the State Auditor,he recommended that we break out for budget purposes our Construction Funds and our Bond Redemption Funds from our Operating Funds.Instead of listing just Water/Sewer Fund,we now have about 8 or 9 different items listed,which also include various reserve funds. Mayor -Does that necessarily change our budget? Gagnier - In effect,what we are doing is double budgeting.Because we in effect budget the expenditure out of the Water/Sewer Operating Fund into the Bond Redemption Fund and then we again budget the ex penditure from the Rdemption Fund to the actual payee.So in effect the Auditor is requiring that we double budget here. In addition to those accounting changes,we have added a couple of pojects. Water Bond Project's: Well #31,Referendum Grant #27,that we recently accepted for some $240,000. Booster Station -In anticipation of getting the Well #31 grant,our Engineering Staff has been reallocated and readjusted,so the Booster Station project has been reduced in scope through 1975.~ It went from approximately $85,000 down to approximately $38,000. Reservoir No.4 &No.5 -Anticipated that the Consulting Engineering would be done in a combination" of *in house'work plus manufacturing representatives.With that the Consulting Engineering went from $68,000 to $10,000,or a reduction of some $58,000 In the project for 1975. Sewer Bond Projects: The Winona Lift Station was originally scheduled for completion during 1975,and it has been revised to Engineering only during 1975 at this point.You will notice the Construction Funds have been deleted. The Larson Sewer Treatment Plant -Was originally scheduled for completion during 1974,and with the . redoing of a liner,final retainage payment and inspection will be held over into 1975. The Inspection being $2600 and the Retainage being some $47,000. The last page of the packet then basically is the proposed ordinance for 1975, -Total All Funds =$5,177,230, Waggener - I have a question.The Increase in the first figure you explained as the $30,000 for salaries, but perhaps you should explain the change of almost $800,000 on the total.It doesn't show any other changes that would indicate that. Gagnier -Basically there was $44,500 picked up In the General Fund.There were three corrections. The first two corrections were picked up and the third one was not.The addition of $30,000 in the General Fund was a last minute item. Boyle -Getting back to the Finance Department,the first proposed change,the addition of a one-half time person at the cost of $4200 for the verbatim minutes.Will you go into more detail on that for us. Gagnier -.Currently it takes somewhere between 3 and 5 days after each council meeting to type up the minutes that we have presented for the last two months.This cuts.very heavily into our secretarial pool. We only have three full time secretaries as it is and have been forced to go on an overtime basis through the latter part of this year.Since that cuts into the regular work load,during next year,if that were to continue,that we would like to petition for the addition of a one-half time girl to do that. Ebbert -Would the $4200 be less over the*year than the overtime? Gagnier - The overtime, I don't think is feasible,In that it would require basically after each Council Meeting that one or two girls work three or four nights.They have been willing over the last two months to do it on an overtime basis with Christmas and all that coming,but they all expressed the desire that they would not like to continue that on a permanent basis if at all possible.They really have been good about pitching in on it. Boyle -Gentlemen,I think there is something wehave to kinda decide.Do we actually reed verbatim minutes.Is it actually worth $4200 to have verbatim minutes.Since we already have them on tape .for posterity. Ebbert- We are not getting them on tape,is one of the big problems. We are going to have to make someprettydrasticchangesin the way that there minutes are collected.Some ofthe mikes aren't getting turned on andwedon't get a lot from the people in audience;you notice the blank spots Inthe minutes ever so often;it may be a paragraph or more outofthere because theycan't read because it doesn't come through,and so it looks to me we will have to get pretty formal and each person will have to be identified whenthey speak. It is going to be a matterof getting formal in addressing the chair by giving your name each time you wanttomakea statement, and each person from the audience will almost have to do the same thing. Theywill have to come up closer to the main mike,otherwise we hdveto depend on the secretary's memory or minutes. Whether you people wantto go through all that formality or notI don't know,but I don't know ofany other way to do it.I am open to suggestions. 2i52 City Council -Special Meeting (Budget Public Hearing cont'd.): 3 December 23,1974 Moe - Is thisthe proper time to discuss this particular thing,or should we have the public hearing? Ebbert - If we vote this $4200 forthe one-half timegirl, then weare acceptingthe minutes to be taken verbatim,and I was just bringing up some points in orderto use this $4200 girl weare going to have to make some changes in the way we make the minutes,becausetheyare notgettingregistered.Even ahalf-time girl won'tget them all taken unless we get ourselves properly identifiedeach time we talk. Gagnier -The biggest problem area there has been the audience.Most ofthe Councllmen are familiarenoughwiththetypistthattheycanpickthemoutJustbytheirvoice.But in public hearings orregularmeetingswherewehavehadpeopleInaudiencethat haven't been here ona regular basis, it is virtuallyimpossibleforthegirltopickuponthemjustoffthetape.You are very correct Gordon,if we were to continue that they would have to identify themselves. Ebbert -But where are you going to cut this verbatim off if you decide notto goas formal as that.To. get every word down verbatim,how much is the girl actually going to type? Boyle -The thing I was thinking of here;I cansee the feasibility of having in the minutes thedirectQuestionsand the direct answers from people in the audience to the Councilor Department Head. Ithinkweareoverdoingitbygettingintoa lotof small talk, that isn't the right word becausethese areImportantitemsto these people,but I wonder if it is absolutely necessary to have every word.Where itisprobablynota directquestion,it's possibly something they have experienced about a certain particular situation that isn't really absolutely necessary to making their point. Just throwing it put for discussion. Gagnier - We will provide anything you gentlemen care to have. Ebbed:- That was my point - where do you cut If off - who is going to be the Judge? Hill-Personally I like the more complete minutes from some we have had in the past, but I agree with Mr.Boyle/some we have had.on the budgetgot in there were not necessary.Butmaybe sometime we could playthe tape back just for the Council because I have heardthe tape about once, and that was some years ago. Ebbert - That is another point,this tape is not made for a quick play-back;you have to listen to a two or three Hourcouncil meetlna in order to get it all and that is what the girl has to do and then shehas to take a section at a time/aTJsolve the part that Is hard to obtain on the tape in her minutes.It takes two or three of themto actually write up the minutes. Skaug -Mr.Mayor I think Mr.Boyle and Mr.Hill's comments are valid, but I Just wonder If youcan assess the value or the money we have spent in the past two,three or four years on the verbatim minutes, have they justified that,I think that is the thing we have to consider.I do knowthat there are a number of other agencies and legislative bodies that get copies of our minutes and they are rather amazed at the volume of minutes that we have from our particular meetings. Ebbert -"One set was 40 pages. Skaug - I think Mr. Boyle's statement is right -is it needful? Nowas we are speaking here,the Secretary is recording as we are speaking,yet it takes up paragraph after paragraph.There is a question whether the intent of the thing has been fulfilled. Pat Lightel - For the audience part - you don't listen to them anyway,so you won't need to worry about getting it on the tape. Moe - I think Mr.Mayor only lately has it been minutes of the magnitude of 42 or 30 pages that we have experienced.Prior to that time I can find no fault with the minutes at all,as far as any quotations are concerned.I think we are just throwing $4200 away if we inject this item into our budget,and when it comes time to vote on the budget we can make that change when we need to. Skaug -You have some question as to the need of $4200? Moe -Right,I think it can be spent some place else. Skaug -Would you accomplish that with less voluminous minutes then? Moe -Yes,that is what I alluded to.Until recently this hasn't been a problem I don't think.Only for the last five or six meetings'I believe.Having missed some,I really don't know the reason for it.I know there was a time several years ago when we asked for more complete minutes,but I didn't expect to go to that many pages,direct quotes,etc.I would say we should take the $4200 out of there and use it for something else. Ebbert -How would you propose that these get typed up then if the girls renege on overtime? Moe -All I am saying the minutes don't have to be that complete as far as I am concerned.We don't have to have everybody's comment In there.As long as we stay with the main order of business here and go into the motions and so on. .'V faz 2153 fififc City Council -Special Meeting (Budget Public Hearing): 4 December 23,1974' Ebbert -That is my feeling too.Still where are you going to cut it off? Hill - We went,I would say from quite of a 'skeleton'type minute to a rather complete type minutes,/—> and then we got this verbatim type.What happened to the middle ground where have gone from extreme to the other? Gagnier — As Gordon has indicated,it is very difficult to know where the line is at,and not wanting to leaving anything out that has been deemed important,we thought until further clarified,would do as best we could to pick it all up.Would be most happy,however,to reduce the verbatim minutes to some thing perhaps similar to what we had in the past.But we reed eome clarification on that,frankly, to know exactly what you gentlemen prefer. Ebbert- You're suggesting then that we leave it up to you for trial or error on reducing it.We just give you the go ahead to give it a trial and error situation for further approval? Gagnier - We could do it that way Mr.Mayor,but if at all possible I would like to have some sort of a guideline or some Indication as to what you deem important and what direction you would like us to take. Ebbert -We almost need a special session on-that. Moe -Well,if we leave the $4200 added in there,we are going to get complete minutes,is that right? If we don't,then we are not. I would be satisfied with the way it was before,without the $4200 added, so we won't have 30 to 40 pages to read, Gagnier -O.K.it was my understanding,however,at the last prior to going to verbatim,the minutes were deficient in some areas and perhaps those areas could be defined.It wouldn't take a major altera tion to the previous minutes.At this point I am hesitant to say let's throw the $4200 out and if we then end up not compromisingthen in effect we still have an extra manning requirement that,frankly gentle men,we just don't have the capability of picking up with the present staff. Skaug - I can understand Mr.Gagnier's request for some guidelines.We should instruct them definitely on Just what is to be recorded.It is our meeting.They are recording what you and I want them to record. Butevery't'crossed and every 'i'dotted-well,verbatim of course is needless. Ebbert - If you cut this $4200 out of the budget and ycu go back to what capabilities you have for making r—«* up the minutes now,would we have to go back to the bare skeleton of the minutes? Waggener -Mr.Mayor,can I respond to that?I think what I hear the Council is saying,Is that the j more detail that you had;over the last couple years,is what you would want.I would think that in addi tion to that,that if a Councilman wants something to specifically go on record,it would be well for them to request that be done,so that then could be made into the minutes verbatim.In addition to that,the intent of the recording originally was to provide that detail as back-up information to less detailed minutes because we have had some problems with people saying that they didn't really believe that the minutes reflected the action that was taken by the Council.I think before any of you gentlemen were on the Council we had a couple occasions where we actually had to go back and refer to tapes to check ourselves.Now the tape recordings some times have not been particularly good.I think we have a good recorder now,al though it was not really designed for transcription.Stlli,If you want the tape for back-up,I think Mayor the comments you made earlier are still appropriate,but I think the Councilmen need to be aware that there is a switch on the microphone and please use it,because you don't really come through very well if the switch isn't on.It is not only for the speaker,it is to actuate the recorder.The microphone here generally {T} picks the audience up well. It is an all-purpose mikeand picks up fairly well,although someone soft-£tj spokenand speaking from fairly well back in the room,it will not pick themup. So, here again they <-}should preferably either come tothe frontand use this microphone,or if the Councilwish, we have a 'Z& floor-mount stand,and we could purchase another microphone that would plug in ore side of the cabinet, and that could be put out in the audience,so that they could merely come to that and address the Council. I guess the thing that we have always been concerned about in asking the public to come to a microphone, is the feeling that It may Inhibit some people to the point that they simply would not speak. Hill - Mr.Waggener,in that regard'though if they were soft spoken,wouldn't Freda's notes,as long as he identifies himself,wouldn't Freda have that in context enough to offset the mike? Waggener -Yes,Bob, I think so,the only point I was making that if we wanted to go back and listen to a tape in terms of determining completely what someone said.It is not going to record particularly well unless they are closer to the microphone.Many council chambers,I think almost all of them that we toured last Spring with Harvey Vernier when we were looking at City Halls,virtually every one of those had an audience microphone and people were required to come to the microphone'to speak.Now,-—v we have never been that formal.Frankly,I don't really approve of being that formal,because I think it does Inhibit people,but if you really want a complete transcription;that's probably necessary. Is It the wish of the Council that we go back basically to the minutes you were receiving say prior to some three months ago with the understanding that If you want something more detailed on It you would request that it be made a matter of record in It's entirety?Again,wereally don't care as far as staff is concerned;it's what you gentlemen want for minutes'. Ebbert - Can you*handle that type ofa set of minutes without the $4200for a one-half time girl? CO 2154 City Council -Special Meeting (Budget Public Hearing): 5 December 23,1974 Waggener - We were doing it before, and it is somewhat burdensome.I need to discuss this with Rick because I need to look for some relief for Freda,because I have too often after a lengthy Council meeting basically lost Freda as a secretary.The combination of preparing the agenda,follow-up on —,the agenda and preparation of the minutes has gotten to the point where it is full time.But I think that Rick,without the verbatim transcript I think we can still fill it in. Would that be a correct reading? •y J Gagnier - I think we can come very close.We can certainly give it a good try. Boyle - I think that could hold true for someone in the audience. If they felt they wanted to makea point very emphatic and very importantto them, they could also ask that it be put on record. Skaug -Gordon,if you remember when wewere down at the Jail Seminar in Yakima,there was a little podium out in the middle of the floor and it had a microphone and a little lectern that the interested in dividual that wanted to comment on the question could be recorded. Ebbert - Are you suggesting a mike out on the floor then? Skaug - A permanent mike out there on a little podium. Waggener-They aren't that expensive,so we can simply get another one. Gagnier -Are there any other questions on any of the material presented this evening? Skaug -Adding these items,they don't total. t Gagnier - Let merun a quick tape on it.- The correct figure should be $44,500. Ebbert -Subtract $4200.If I remember right the Council voted to have the minutes go into verbatim. We would have to have someone make a motion that we rescind that,and go back to the original structure which the office crew can handle or capable of handling.So if we want to cancel out the $4200,then we better change the format of the handling of the minutes. Hill - Mr.Mayor,did we ask for verbatim minutes,or just more complete minutes;I think more complete _and not verbatim.—j Waggener - I think the request as I recall Bob,was to have everything that a Councilman said verbatim and to have every response from the staff to the Councilmen verbatim,and there was something regarding k I comments from the audience that needed to be morecomplete, and once we got that far it's probably not quite verbatim,but It's so close.There have been some comments into it,and frankly,I haven't read some of the minutes recently and I assume they were verbatim,so there is no need to review them.But I think there were obviously joking comments that were made that probably could well have been screened. When we turned it over to one of the other girls to do it that was not familiar with the minutes,it was easier for her just to write It verbatim. Boyle -Would this require a motion to change this then,or delete it ? Skaug - I believe the whole thing Is suggested as an amendment to the budget.That being one item not amended. Moe -Simply by deleting that Item would take care of it.• Gagnier -Are there any other questions that I could answer at this time. Hill -I don't quite understand the Arterial Fund portion of the Valley Road design.Looks like we are doing it,but then we don't need the money. Gagnier -Basically in the Arterial Street Fund we have about $130,000 of unallocated money.going into 1975 and the $130,000 represents funds that,it sounds like quite a bit of money,but when it comes time to start rebuilding streets it is really'not enough to do anything with,and so that being the case,we have gone into 1975 with what we call a contingency Item for some $130,000,This proposed change would allocate $1500 of It to Valley Road Street Design out of the $130,000 that we have just as a contingency Item. Unfortunately we were not blessed with those funds at all. Waggener-A further comment to clarify It.The design of course costs more than $1500,however,most of that Is being completed In 1974.Mac has had the Engineering crew working on it now and this is an anticipated carry-over Into 1975. I Ebbert - Are we budgeting anything at this time for Well No.11? Gagnier -Well No.11 was contained In the Preliminary Budget,and it hasn't changed any. aaz 2155 City Council -Special Meeting (Budget Public Hearing):6 December 23,1974 Ebbert - Are there any questions.from the Audience or statements in relation to the proposed changes for the budget ? Pat Lightel - I would just like to knowone thing, under the Water Bond Projects -$240,640.Is that with the $96,000 grant we got?Or is that extra? Waggener - We are required to budget the full amount,so that would include the grant. Lightel -Has that been published in the paper? Waggener -Nothing in the preliminary budget as such has been published in the paper. Lightel -Will this be published in the paper how much it Is going to cost to bring the water line into the City of Moses Lake?That of the $96,000 grant we got,that another $140,000 the people of Moses Lake are going to have to put in there? Waggener - I think in the early discussion of it,it was probably in the news item.I thought you were talking in the terms of a legal advertisement.The matching was made clear in the early discussion of it.I can't guarantee how it was handled in the press.We can certainly ask them to cover it again now and that is all v/c can do. Gagnier - A copy of the budget that would outline the project cost would be available to anyone asking for it or interested in receiving one. Lightel - I am not asking that.I am asking is it going to be published in the paper so that the people In Moses Lake know exactly how much money it will cost.It was published about the $96,000 but it did not say how much more it would cost. Skaug - It stated about 30%of the whole cost is what the grant was for. Moe -We are not publishing the budget in its entirety in the local paper,if that is what you are referring to. Gagnier -Legally the only thing we would be publishing is the ordinance itself adopting the budget. Lightel -That's why so many things go on in here that people don't know what's going on. Ebbert -That is why we have public meetings and public hearings and yet nobody comes to them. Gagnier - Also there were 25 copies available of the Preliminary Budget for the public. Skaug -And how many were picked up? - Gagnier - Not a one. We gave about 5 copies out to the Scouts. Lightel -Was that in the paper?Gagnier -Yes,we published twice. Waggener -We printed 25 copies,but we certainly could have printed any number recessary had there been requests for them. Mayor Ebbert asked if anybody else had any question.If not,we should do something about this $4200 in the General Fund;we will have to delete it from the budget. Moe -Have we closed the pubLic hearing?tT2 Waggener - I think you closed the public hearing at the last meeting, but we suggested that the next ^meeting the Council had on it still be made available tothe public and be advertised as a special meet-^ing.You opened the meeting announcing that it was a public hearing onthe budget,and that being the ^ case I would think that the public portion of the meeting should be closed,at such time as you are ready, of course. Ebbert - Asked for the third time then if there are any other questions from the audience on the proposed changes. Motion by Moeand second by Boyle to close the public hearing. Motion carried. Motion by Moe that we would be satisfied with the minutes as we were getting before and thatthe $4200 item be stricken from the budget.Second by Hill.Motion carried. Waggener -Rick,does this change any figures in the budget ordinance? Gagnier - I would have to dcuble-check that,but we can adopt the ordinance with the modifications incorporated. Mayor Ebbert asked if there have been any written protested submitted?There were none. The ordinance was read by title only,adopting the budget for the city of Moses Lake for the year 1975.. This adopts the entire budget plus the changes as amended tonight,stated Mayor Ebbert. Motion by Boyle to adopt the budget for the City of Moses Lake for the year 1975.Second by Moe. Motion carried. Meeting adjourned at 8:50 (The Council met with the City Manager in Executive Session) [AYOR,Gordon M.Ebbert ATTEST: sift 410^7 R.R-Gagnier,Cit^lerk